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	<title>Comments on: The Characters You Don&#8217;t Like</title>
	<link>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/</link>
	<description>About the craft and business of genre fiction</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 02:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Eric</title>
		<link>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12960</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 01:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12960</guid>
					<description>Jane Espenson has &lt;a href="http://www.janeespenson.com/archives/00000374.php" rel="nofollow"&gt;a great post&lt;/a&gt;, similar topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jane Espenson has <a href="http://www.janeespenson.com/archives/00000374.php" rel="nofollow">a great post</a>, similar topic.
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		<title>by: Helen Ginger</title>
		<link>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12952</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 22:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12952</guid>
					<description>What one reader likes about a character, someone else may dislike. A series character that becomes popular and well-read isn't necessarily a universally-liked character. It most likely means that most readers find something about or within that character that they can identify with or understand. Maybe he always catches the bad guy and readers like books where good overcomes evil. Or maybe he plods on despite something bad that has happened to him in his past and people identify with that. Different readers can see different things within the same character. Sort of a long-around way of saying I agee with all the other comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What one reader likes about a character, someone else may dislike. A series character that becomes popular and well-read isn&#8217;t necessarily a universally-liked character. It most likely means that most readers find something about or within that character that they can identify with or understand. Maybe he always catches the bad guy and readers like books where good overcomes evil. Or maybe he plods on despite something bad that has happened to him in his past and people identify with that. Different readers can see different things within the same character. Sort of a long-around way of saying I agee with all the other comments.
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		<title>by: Therese Walsh</title>
		<link>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12931</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12931</guid>
					<description>Nice post, Jason, and good conversation here. You can give me a serial-killer protagonist if you'd like, just make sure I understand his/her rationale. I'm not going to root for this character, but I'll be hooked on the journey thanks to the authenticity element.

I haven't read Stephen King's new novel Blaze (authored under his pseudonymn, Richard Bachman), but his protag, Clayton Blaze Blaisdell, seems a good one to look at for this discussion. Will you feel sorry for Blaze's kidnappee or Blaze himself, who's been maltreated his whole life, and who you'll get to know through flashback chapters throughout the book? Seems like a good summer read!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post, Jason, and good conversation here. You can give me a serial-killer protagonist if you&#8217;d like, just make sure I understand his/her rationale. I&#8217;m not going to root for this character, but I&#8217;ll be hooked on the journey thanks to the authenticity element.</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read Stephen King&#8217;s new novel Blaze (authored under his pseudonymn, Richard Bachman), but his protag, Clayton Blaze Blaisdell, seems a good one to look at for this discussion. Will you feel sorry for Blaze&#8217;s kidnappee or Blaze himself, who&#8217;s been maltreated his whole life, and who you&#8217;ll get to know through flashback chapters throughout the book? Seems like a good summer read!
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		<title>by: catherine</title>
		<link>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12930</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12930</guid>
					<description>Agreed--it doesn't matter so much whether or not a protagonist (or antagonist, for that matter) is likable, but whether or not they're *compelling.*  Do the make the reader want to keep going, to find out more about where they and their story are going?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed&#8211;it doesn&#8217;t matter so much whether or not a protagonist (or antagonist, for that matter) is likable, but whether or not they&#8217;re *compelling.*  Do the make the reader want to keep going, to find out more about where they and their story are going?
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		<title>by: Jason</title>
		<link>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12927</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 16:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12927</guid>
					<description>Another part of this is that whether a character is likable or not is so subjective. Tony Soprano is a good example. Let's say he was a character in your novel and you submitted that book to publishers. I guarantee you that half the agents and editors who read the mansucript would say, "Sorry, the character isn't likable." Those same readers might accuse you as the author of not liking your own character simply because they didn't like him. Then you'd find people who'd tell you that they loved Tony. That they loved the dark humor and irony and totally got what you were trying to do. Those same people would tell you how obvious it is that you love creating characters...So then what is the value of someone commenting that he or she doesn't like your character? None, as far as I can see. If everybody hates your character, that could indicate a problem. But if you're submitting a novel and an agent says I don't like your character, I'd forget it and move on. The agent was probably just looking for any excuse to reject the work and, for some reason, "I didn't like the character" has become a very overused fallback.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another part of this is that whether a character is likable or not is so subjective. Tony Soprano is a good example. Let&#8217;s say he was a character in your novel and you submitted that book to publishers. I guarantee you that half the agents and editors who read the mansucript would say, &#8220;Sorry, the character isn&#8217;t likable.&#8221; Those same readers might accuse you as the author of not liking your own character simply because they didn&#8217;t like him. Then you&#8217;d find people who&#8217;d tell you that they loved Tony. That they loved the dark humor and irony and totally got what you were trying to do. Those same people would tell you how obvious it is that you love creating characters&#8230;So then what is the value of someone commenting that he or she doesn&#8217;t like your character? None, as far as I can see. If everybody hates your character, that could indicate a problem. But if you&#8217;re submitting a novel and an agent says I don&#8217;t like your character, I&#8217;d forget it and move on. The agent was probably just looking for any excuse to reject the work and, for some reason, &#8220;I didn&#8217;t like the character&#8221; has become a very overused fallback.
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		<title>by: Eric</title>
		<link>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12924</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 14:40:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12924</guid>
					<description>I think we're talking about heroes vs. anti-heroes. Tony Montana in Scarface isn't necessarily a likeable character. Likewise for Tony Soprano.

Donald Westlake writing as Richard Stark has an entire series based on an anti-hero; The Parker novels (Payback). Parker is a mean, grouchy bastard. But there's a charm in his mean determination. He believes if you're gonna do a crime, you do it right. Most of the 'villains' in those novels are people who cheat him or who are so bullheaded and incompetent that they botch the job and make life tough for Parker. So in a world of criminals Parker is often the lesser of two evils, and admirable for trying to do things clean and professional.

There is also Lawrence Block's Hit Man novels, featuring Keller. Keller kills people for a living, and when he's not on the job he struggles to find a hobby and through hobbies some desperate connection to the definition of 'normal.' Block's other character Bernie Rhodenbarr, a professional thief.

Mickey Spillane's Mike Hammer isn't exactly the spitting image of 'clean' either. He's a brute -- more often than not a bull in the china shop. He beats people up, destroys property, and in the end he always blasts the murderer before the cops can get there. Hammer doesn't believe in the justice system... he is the judge, jury, and executioner.

Anti-heroes are very much ingrained in Western culture. I'd take that one step further in the case of America... Being founded in revolutionary spirit there's a great deal of Anti-hero threaded into the fabric of the nation. We love our cowboys... which brings up a whole other set of unsavory characters... those played by Clint Eastwood both in Westerns and as cop Dirty Harry.

It's a huge part of our culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we&#8217;re talking about heroes vs. anti-heroes. Tony Montana in Scarface isn&#8217;t necessarily a likeable character. Likewise for Tony Soprano.</p>
<p>Donald Westlake writing as Richard Stark has an entire series based on an anti-hero; The Parker novels (Payback). Parker is a mean, grouchy bastard. But there&#8217;s a charm in his mean determination. He believes if you&#8217;re gonna do a crime, you do it right. Most of the &#8216;villains&#8217; in those novels are people who cheat him or who are so bullheaded and incompetent that they botch the job and make life tough for Parker. So in a world of criminals Parker is often the lesser of two evils, and admirable for trying to do things clean and professional.</p>
<p>There is also Lawrence Block&#8217;s Hit Man novels, featuring Keller. Keller kills people for a living, and when he&#8217;s not on the job he struggles to find a hobby and through hobbies some desperate connection to the definition of &#8216;normal.&#8217; Block&#8217;s other character Bernie Rhodenbarr, a professional thief.</p>
<p>Mickey Spillane&#8217;s Mike Hammer isn&#8217;t exactly the spitting image of &#8216;clean&#8217; either. He&#8217;s a brute &#8212; more often than not a bull in the china shop. He beats people up, destroys property, and in the end he always blasts the murderer before the cops can get there. Hammer doesn&#8217;t believe in the justice system&#8230; he is the judge, jury, and executioner.</p>
<p>Anti-heroes are very much ingrained in Western culture. I&#8217;d take that one step further in the case of America&#8230; Being founded in revolutionary spirit there&#8217;s a great deal of Anti-hero threaded into the fabric of the nation. We love our cowboys&#8230; which brings up a whole other set of unsavory characters&#8230; those played by Clint Eastwood both in Westerns and as cop Dirty Harry.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a huge part of our culture.
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		<title>by: theamcginnis</title>
		<link>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12921</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 13:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12921</guid>
					<description>i recently received feedback on one of my favorite characters in my w.i.p., the strongest being that he wasn't 'likeable' . it bothered me at first but i think his initial 'unlikeability' is key to his growth arc in the book.  he needs to change in order to succeed.  good post!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i recently received feedback on one of my favorite characters in my w.i.p., the strongest being that he wasn&#8217;t &#8216;likeable&#8217; . it bothered me at first but i think his initial &#8216;unlikeability&#8217; is key to his growth arc in the book.  he needs to change in order to succeed.  good post!
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		<title>by: Kathleen Bolton</title>
		<link>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12557</link>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://writerunboxed.com/2007/06/18/the-characters-you-dont-like/#comment-12557</guid>
					<description>The best non-likable character I ever read was  Die Nadel in Ken Follet's Eye of the Needle.  I hated him, I rooted for him, I knew it wasn't going to end well for him, yet I couldn't help hope he made it somehow.  A compelling read.

Great post, Jason, and good reminder that nice can be boring in fiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best non-likable character I ever read was  Die Nadel in Ken Follet&#8217;s Eye of the Needle.  I hated him, I rooted for him, I knew it wasn&#8217;t going to end well for him, yet I couldn&#8217;t help hope he made it somehow.  A compelling read.</p>
<p>Great post, Jason, and good reminder that nice can be boring in fiction.
</p>
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